What an extraordinary and thought provoking way of looking at fiction! Sometimes I have wondered if the best geometrical analogy is not a figure or shape, but a grid. The Cartesian plane is a grid; this can be extended to three axes in multivariate math; and in relativity, it is extended even further. A multi dimensional fictional space were you can locate the bits of a story as points.
That's really interesting. I definitely think we need something three-dimensional or perhaps even four-dimensional (if time is the fourth dimension?) to find the depths beneath a story (I've actually been writing about this today). But I suppose at its simplest, what we want is to create the biggest volume of story within any given space.
There are times when language IS the most important part of the story, but when it is, I think that one has moved from prose to poetry. Essentially that is what poetry is, a form of writing where language is the most important element of the composition. Character (that is our ability to identify with the emotions and the feelings of the poem) and plot (the presence of a reason or purpose to the poem) are still important, but take second and third place to the use of language.
Yes, poetry is a different kettle of fish, isn't it? (And similarly, I suppose would be vignettes in the way they push for atmosphere / character rather than plot) I think that's one reason why fiction writer get scared of poetry, because they're being asked to abandon (or at least not give so much importance to) plot and really focus on language, although for me, the strongest poems are still ones where the language is in service to building atmosphere / emotion / imagery rather than just being chosen for language's sake.
Yes this was interesting but I do feel I write organically and don’t like too much planning . Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong… my fear is that a plan might interfere with authenticity.
With short fiction I also tend to dive in without much of a plan and see where the journey takes me, but I find this idea of triangles to be useful after I've got something on the page, asking myself to consider what I've created and how I can maybe strengthen that by changing the shape of my triangle.
Being maths phobic this did make my head spin a bit! But I do like the idea and it’s made me realise that all of my stories are probably the same shape triangle. Which might explain why I’ve lost the compulsion to write them. I need to shake things up! Thanks for your insights, Matt.
Yes, I should maybe have started with a trigger warning!! I am also slightly maths phobic, but I'm glad this was useful. I think we all have a story shape which is our usual one and pushing away from that is hard. I know that a lot of mine are flat as a panic, all character and language with absolutely no plot!
Funny you should say that as at the workshop Tania Hershman did for RW recently about using science in stories, I appear to have written my first poemy thing!
V = P * C * L where V is volume and P,C,L are plot ,character, language respectively. Differentiate V with respect to one of the dependent variables and set result to zero. This maximizes volume. Anyone or anything can do it, including ChatGPT :)
Nice. And nice triad.
What an extraordinary and thought provoking way of looking at fiction! Sometimes I have wondered if the best geometrical analogy is not a figure or shape, but a grid. The Cartesian plane is a grid; this can be extended to three axes in multivariate math; and in relativity, it is extended even further. A multi dimensional fictional space were you can locate the bits of a story as points.
That's really interesting. I definitely think we need something three-dimensional or perhaps even four-dimensional (if time is the fourth dimension?) to find the depths beneath a story (I've actually been writing about this today). But I suppose at its simplest, what we want is to create the biggest volume of story within any given space.
There are times when language IS the most important part of the story, but when it is, I think that one has moved from prose to poetry. Essentially that is what poetry is, a form of writing where language is the most important element of the composition. Character (that is our ability to identify with the emotions and the feelings of the poem) and plot (the presence of a reason or purpose to the poem) are still important, but take second and third place to the use of language.
Yes, poetry is a different kettle of fish, isn't it? (And similarly, I suppose would be vignettes in the way they push for atmosphere / character rather than plot) I think that's one reason why fiction writer get scared of poetry, because they're being asked to abandon (or at least not give so much importance to) plot and really focus on language, although for me, the strongest poems are still ones where the language is in service to building atmosphere / emotion / imagery rather than just being chosen for language's sake.
Yes this was interesting but I do feel I write organically and don’t like too much planning . Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong… my fear is that a plan might interfere with authenticity.
With short fiction I also tend to dive in without much of a plan and see where the journey takes me, but I find this idea of triangles to be useful after I've got something on the page, asking myself to consider what I've created and how I can maybe strengthen that by changing the shape of my triangle.
Being maths phobic this did make my head spin a bit! But I do like the idea and it’s made me realise that all of my stories are probably the same shape triangle. Which might explain why I’ve lost the compulsion to write them. I need to shake things up! Thanks for your insights, Matt.
Yes, I should maybe have started with a trigger warning!! I am also slightly maths phobic, but I'm glad this was useful. I think we all have a story shape which is our usual one and pushing away from that is hard. I know that a lot of mine are flat as a panic, all character and language with absolutely no plot!
I’m not very plotty either! Plot phobic as well as maths 😂
I mean, who really needs plot? Maybe we should just shift into being prose poets?
Funny you should say that as at the workshop Tania Hershman did for RW recently about using science in stories, I appear to have written my first poemy thing!
How exciting! I always think the line between fiction / poetry is much more porous than we maybe expect.
V = P * C * L where V is volume and P,C,L are plot ,character, language respectively. Differentiate V with respect to one of the dependent variables and set result to zero. This maximizes volume. Anyone or anything can do it, including ChatGPT :)